| Making Bread | |
Date:
October 07, 1997 01:33 PM
Author: Monica George
(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Making Bread from a Starter-help!
I have made sourdough bread from a starter--it tasted sour as I expected...I then made bread from my old recipe with the yeast from the store. I pulled a piece of dough from it and kept in a container in the fridge. A week later I pulled it from the fridge, fed it with sugar and it proceeded to rise. I added flour, a little more sugar and water as necessary and increased it to the amt. needed for a loaf. I baked it--it did not rise to the usual heighth. It looked okay though. Upon tasting it, we about choked. It too was very sour tasting. Is this normal for a loaf made from a yeast starter? I thought that since my starter had yeast from the store (instead of the flour and water souring process I used for the sourdough), it would not result in such a sour bread.. The yeast was fed and multiplied so it should be like what it came from--the original loaf, right?? I just need to know what my end result will taste like when I know how to do it right.
What is Friendship Bread? Would that be a recipe we should all have? Monica George
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3747)
Date:
October 07, 1997 02:43 PM
Author: Lilly
(lillyroberts@usa.net)
Subject: Less sour bread
Monica, I'm making sourdoug bread right now. I haven't had any trouble with the taste because I use it often and keep it from sitting for long. I think that your starter that sat for a week just turned into sourdough. I've made sour dough cho. cake, and it was a tiny bit tart but, I didn't frost it.Then I made sourdough zuccinni bread, tasted the same as other breads. I read that the longer that you let your starter and flour sit, the more sour it will be. So, I make sure that I start a batch of bread right before bed and then make it first thing in the morning. I've had a recipe for frendship bread, I'll see if I can locate it. I agree with you, using a starter that doesn't require fresh yeast for each batch is important. Thats why I'm doing it. If you need any instructions, let me know! Good luck to the both of us.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3749)
Date:
October 11, 1997 01:10 AM
Author: Monica George
(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Bread w/o new yeast
Lily-Thank you for replying! I was hoping you would. The reason I let my dough sit for more than overnight is that it takes that long to rise. The week during which I stored the starter in the fridge in a sealed, dry container probably did not sour it, did it? Do I just remove my starter from the fridge/(later it will be the crock), let it warm a little and then immediately dump in my 8 cups of flour, my liquid and start my normal process? My regular way of making bread is to wait 5-10 minutes and make sure my yeast is bubbly and active before I add my ingredients. I guess that is why I was slowly feeding (like it is a baby!!) the starter until I eventually had enough dough to make a loaf. I'll try again. Am I thinking straight now? It helps to "talk" it through I guess. Do you use freshly milled (by you) wheat flour? I think I am supposed to use less of wheat flour. Monica George
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3987)
Date:
October 16, 1997 09:33 AM
Author: Lilly
(lillyroberts@usa.net)
Hello Monica, I'm sorry it took me so long to reply, I've been out of town. I have a grinder but have reciently bought a 50 lb. bag of stone-ground wheat for $10, so I'm using it. When making bread, I put my starter in a bowl ( mixed with a little wheat and water) before I go to bed to allow it to bubble. The next morning I make the loaf. This process is called sponging. In the book I use, it states that the longer the sponge sits, the more sour the bread wil be. I also make enough bread to keep my starter pretty fresh. Right now I'm doing an experiment, I've let my starter sit for a week. I want to know how it will react and what sort of taste the bread will have. I'm also going to try mixing whole wheat bread and letting it rise overnight. Then in the morning, I will shape it into loaves and let it rise again. It does take a long time to get whole wheat to rise! One more thing, in my sourdough book it says to lightly cover the starter in the refrigerator, not to seal it up. This allow some of the gases to excape. Hope this helps!
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4244)
Date:
October 17, 1997 01:05 AM
Author: SheJohnson
(thomasjohnson21@hotmail.com)
Lilly,
Do you mind mentioning what book you're using and if you make your starter, or if you ordered if from a baker's catalogue? Thanks!
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4282)
Date:
October 17, 1997 05:24 PM
Author: Lilly
(lillyroberts@usa.net)
Hello there, The book I use for sourdough is Baking with Sourdough by Sara Pitzer. It is one of those little Storey/Garden Way Publishing books that you can get for $2.95. A few years ago when we bought our farm, we bought a bunch of them. I like them, they give you just enough uinfo. to get you going. They're also called Country Wisdom Bulletins. Hope this helps!
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4302)
Date:
December 04, 1997 05:32 AM
Author: Tom Smith
(smgith@hotmail.com)
Subject: Dough Mixer
Can anyone tell me where I can buy a dough mixer? And, if you know, for how much?
TNX Tom Smith
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6775)
Date:
December 05, 1997 12:57 AM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Bread mixers.
Let me give you an idea or two about what a mixer costs and where you can find them. Probably the top of the line bread mixer is the Bosch. It will just about last a family 1/2 a life time if they treat it right. It's made in Germany and costs a lot, and the spare parts seem extra expensive to me. Depending on where you get it, a Bosch can cost you about $425.00.
Perhaps Bosch's main competitor is the Kitchen Mill by K-tec. It will make about the same amount of dough, enough to make four loaves at one time. The K-tec is computerized and even shuts itself off when the mixing is done. Cost: $350.00. Of course this price can also fluxuate depending on where you get it.
There is also a manual bread mixer that was on the market until about a year ago. It was sold by Back to Basics and was made in France. They pulled it off the market to correct a couple of parts and have done nothing but flounder ever since. After lots of promises for delivery, Back to Basics tells me that it will remain off the market indefinitely. I got that news from them today.
In many department stores you can also find a numerous number of brands of different mixers. I really don't feel qualified to talk about them and so I'll leave it at that. Perhaps the readers of this forum would like to comment on them who have experience with the different models.
As these machines all cost a lot of money, don't neglect the possibility of getting one used. I understand you can spot a manual mixer every once in a while at flea markets and garage sells. If you are serious about getting a used mixer, why not advertise for it in the want adds. Who knows, maybe it will turn something up.
If all else fails, you can always do it like grandma used to do it. It would be good for your muscles!
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6830)
Date:
December 06, 1997 06:30 AM
Author: Paul Cordes
(pcordes@igateway.net)
Subject: Bread
After getting my Country Living grain mill put some wheat in the hopper and started to grind flour. In about 2 min. I had all these kid in the kitchen wondering what I was doing. None had even the foggiest idea what was in the hopper. Well they all got interested and soon I wasn't turning the mill, they were all having so much fun doing it.
Baked 2 loaves that came out perfect. Used my Kitchen Aide Mixer with dough hook untill it cleaned the bowel and then took it out and kneaded for 10 min more. It was eaten in a flash.
Baked 2 more same way and it was gone.
Thought about not having power and so tried the third batch by hand with only a bowel and spoon. Way to heavy and dry! To much flour and not enough kneading and mixing. This isn't as easy at it looks to get the gluten to come out. Question? Can you just add gluten in order to give this old body a break? Or should I turn the job over to all these kids and grandkids?
Paul
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6900)
Date:
December 06, 1997 01:38 PM
Author: Hutch
(Hutch357@ix.netcom.com)
Subject: Grain mills
Paul, would you recommend the Country Living grain mill? I have been researching the options, and that one is at the top of my list. From what you've seen of it, do you think it would be possible to bolt it to a piece of lumber, and then clamp that to a table top when it's time to grind? Counter space is tight, and I don't think my better half would appreciate giving some up for a seldom-used grinder.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6912)
Date:
December 06, 1997 08:59 PM
Author: will richards
(Will_richards@hotmail.com)
Subject: Summer Kitchens
I was just thinking about kitchen work here in the south come the post air conditioning age. I think I will build that summer canning kitchen we have talked about. I guess a fellow could design it with drop down sides so that in the winter he could use it for butchering and canning meat. A great place for the grinder to boot.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6947)
Date:
December 06, 1997 09:45 PM
Author: Peggy Ryan
(ryanpj@bright.net)
Subject: If You're New At Breadmaking
The book "Making the Best of Basics" has been the biggest help regarding breads, grains, etc. The sourdough chapter has been especially helpful because we will be making lots of this when things change. The book made it simple for me to understand the concept of sourdough starter. The first loaf I made came out perfect. I was so encouraged. Wait till you try the sourdough pancakes and biscuits. Thank you to the author!
If you have a breadmaker you can get used to the idea that you must bake on a regular basis. Then, in between breadmaker loaves you can experiment with making your own loaves and still feel you've provided your family with something nutritious. If anyone needs a recipe for an excellent whole-grain loaf that stays fresh for at least 3-4 days please e-mail me. (It's for a machine).
Does anyone have an opinion on what is the best grain mill to buy that's reasonably priced? The one I bought will be great for chicken feed but won't grind fine enough for bread flour.
My first attempt at grinding didn't go so well. I found my new grinder wouldn't clamp to the kitchen table OR the countertop. I pulled out a drawer, tied my big cutting board to it with a rope and clamped the grinder to that.. Things didn't go so well--flour and grain was sprayed everywhere. I'm going to have to improve---
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6957)
Date:
December 07, 1997 12:20 PM
Author: JO
(jo-kubala@usa.net)
Subject: Mills
Hi,
I'm not sure if this will answer your question but, we purchased a Vita Mixer (that blender type machine) when we found a good price at a trade show. I had wanted one for years. The reason is its very fast and does much more than just mix stuff. It will grind grain, make soup, make juices, knead bread and much more. I have used it to make flour and it takes less than 90 seconds to do enough for my bread baker. Of course, these items all use electricity. We hope to have a standby power system set up in time.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6985)
Date:
December 07, 1997 12:36 PM
Author: Peggy Ryan
(ryanpj@bright.net)
Subject: Grain Grinding
Thanks, Jo. I do want to get a vitamix. I didn't realize you could use it to grind grain. I think I will be getting one of these. We're implementing secondary sources of power so we'll be able to use a few electrical items later on.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6988)
Date:
December 07, 1997 12:45 PM
Author: JO
(jo-kubala@usa.net)
Subject: You're welcome
Peggy,
Do watch out when you go to buy your VitaMixer. I have seen them anywhere from $550.00 - $600.00. We got ours (including a recipe book, a bread mix book, the dry mix container and a video for around $400.00. We were at a home show and this was a show special.
PS They are wonderful for fresh fruit juices as well as vegitable juices and there is virtually no clean-up! I had a Champion juicer and didn't use it much because it took so long to thoroughly clean.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6989)
Date:
January 18, 1998 08:06 AM
Author: J.C. Sage
(ladysage@rocketmail.com)
Subject: Mills
Peggy, I would recommend a Norland juicer. It is multifunctional. It grinds the vegies and then presses the juice out, there by retaining the toxins and giving you more juice. You Can also use the grinder for making fine grain. But yet again, it takes electricity. If you are looking for a hand mill, I would suggest an antique tool store. They didn't have electricity back then so they made the grinders so they would actually grind. J.C
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=10732)
Date:
December 06, 1997 11:22 PM
Author: Paul Cordes
(pcordes@igateway.net)
Subject: Grain Mill
Hutch,
Yes it seems to be very well made with sealed industrial bearings instead of bushings. I bolted mine to a pretty piece of 1X6 Oak and counter sunk the bolt heads and then clamp it to the counter with 2 C clamps and it is very stable. Make sure the counter top is well fastned as there is quite a bit of torque applied by that big wheel.
I have no experience with any other mills.
Paul
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=6966)
Date:
December 17, 1997 04:01 PM
Author: Carol
(hewcrew@juno.com)
Subject: Hand grain grinding 101
Today I used a borrowed hand grain grinder for the first time. Here is how it went. (Some background info is that I am terribly out of shape and the table that the grinder was clamped to is a wimpy excuse for a piece of wood.) Clamped the grinder to the table and put in grain, tried to turn the handle with it set on fine. The table moved across the floor, handle did not move. I had my adult daughter sit on the table and also attempt to hold it together, there is no clamp underneath for that, so I could grind the grain. After one cup I decided that she should course grind it first and then I would fine grind it second. It took over two hours to get enought flour for 2 loaves of bread. She is the breadmaker here so we asked her to make 2 loaves the normal (electric) way and two the y2k way. The last batch is in the oven. I am grateful that there is time to "get into shape" and learn how to use items like this. I am also grateful for over the counter medications both internal and external for sore muscles and a hot bath with epsom salts. Thanks for all the great posts...Carol
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7753)
Date:
December 16, 1997 11:22 AM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Hand VS electric grinders
We in our house have been making bread ever since we've been married (20 years). A hand grinder is great fun - for about the first month. And then for many folks it turns into such a chore that it's way too tempting to just go to the store and buy the bread rather than get that workout with the grain mill.
Of course, the whole idea here is that you can't depend on an electric grinder in hard times. There either won't be any, or you might not be able to afford it. I know that sounds crazy, but during the depression it was the case for many families living in the area I live in.
Whole wheat bread made from freshly ground wheat is just so good, and good for you, that we ended up doing something different. We bought an electric grinder and kept the manual grinder for backup for when the power went off. We also got a mixer. If your family is as busy as ours is, you just don't have the time to spend several hours every week making bread. In our family we pretty well have it down to a science now. We actually spend maybe 30 minutes in actual time making 4 loaves of bread even though the process still takes 2-3 hours to complete.
Often you can buy a great grinder or mixer locally. And don't forget to check the garage sales. You might also think about putting a want-add in the paper if you wouldn't mind getting a cheaper, used grinder or mixer. Who knows, maybe you can pick these items up for a song if you can find a serious 'don't wanter.'
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7647)
Date:
December 18, 1997 04:46 PM
Author: Libby Spieth
(Cowboyland)
Subject: hand mixers
In case anyone is interested, I currently use one of those hand mixers that was listed in Back to Basics. It was given to me a few years ago, and after breaking several wooden spoons and bending my "stainless" mixing spoons into contemporary puzzles, I brought out the hand mixer.(Sorry for the jump in time, my bread machine finally died) The first thing I learned was that I am a mechanical dunce. My 12 year old daughter put it together for me. The next thing I learned was that it cannot mix 12 cups of flour as stated in the directions. The "bowl" bent into an elliptical shape and the hook popped out of its clips. The end result, after a routine of turning and squeezing the bowl back in shape, were rather coarse loaves of bread. I still use the thing,but now I just add enough flour to ball the sponge. Then the dough is kneaded by hand until it is alive, shaped and baked. The hand mixer is ok for preserving mixing spoons, but as replacement for a bread machine or hands, it falls far short.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7894)
Date:
December 19, 1997 05:54 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
I've never used one of these hand mixers. But from what Libby said it's easy to see why Back to Basics discontinued them until the manufacturer made some fixes.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7992)
Date:
December 10, 1997 10:57 PM
Author: Bea Richards
(a-bea@usa.net)
Subject: How about no mixer?
Hey Tom,
I don't want to squash your enthusiasium for a dough mixer. But what will you do with one when there is no power?
I make bread twice a week sometimes more, by hand. I make six loaves at a time.
I found some really great tips at Walton's "The way they used to do it" site, on baking bread in a wood stove. I don't use a wood stove but the tips on stirring the bread dough as you add flour for a good ten minutes,to bring out the gluten, then kneading it for a good ten minutes, then letting it rise twice before putting it in the pan to rise. I make almost perfect bread now every time.
Before sometimes it was good and sometimes really lousey. It takes me no more time to make six loaves than two. And it didn't cost me $350. Just my two cents worth. Bea
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7263)
Date:
December 20, 1997 12:16 AM
Author: Libby Spieth
(Cowboyland)
Subject: bread by hand
Bea,
When you mix your dough, do you use your hands, or do you have spoons that will withstand the weight of the dough. This is a big problem for me. THere doesn't seem to be a spoon out there that either won't break at the handle or turn into a pretzel. I'm using that hand mixer just to get the dough to the ball stage. After that it's pretty much a useless piece of equipment. Can you recommend some adequate utensil?
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=8017)
Date:
December 20, 1997 08:28 AM
Author: chrissy
(chrissyb@usa.net)
Subject: Mixing
Libby,
I am not Bea, but I have been making my bread by hand for many years and have never broken a spoon. I use either a fairly short wood spoon or a heavy plastic one. When I say plastic, I don't mean the flimsy plastic that a spatula is made from. The ones I use are solid and don't bend. I got them at Albertsons for a couple of dollars. I stir the dough until it begins to clean the spoon and the bowl and then I use my hands. I like to make the bread by hand. I like the feel of the dough and I always know how it will turn out by the way it feels. Hope this helps.
Chrissy
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=8031)
Date:
December 20, 1997 05:14 PM
Author: Bea Richards
(a-bea@usa.net)
Subject: bread stirring
Hi Libby,
I must admit I've bent a few spoons in my time. But I only use a spoon to a point. I make 6 loaves at a time and it takes about 18 cups of flour. I use a spoon up to about 15 cups then switch to my hands. By this point I don't think I could do a proper job with a spoon no matter how well it held up. I think it either takes your hands or a mixer to get the dough to that final stage. I too, like Chrissy like the feel of the dough in my hands. And by using my hands you can usually tell when the dough reaches that just right point. And since I am used to using my hands I won't be spoiled when the lights go out,and won't have that mixer to use. There are enough things I've been spoiled by as it is. Like the washer,dryer and dishwasher, not to mention the AC.
Best regards,
Bea
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=8073)
Date:
December 14, 1997 05:54 AM
Author: Robert Griswold
(robert@avicom.net)
At Ready Made Resources we sell the Country Living Grain Mill ($299.95) We have found it to be the very best for the Money. We do recommend the power bar attachment with it. Makes Grinding about 40% easier. It can be converted to electric use with about $75.00 in equipment. For day to day use we like the Golden grain grinder (electric $400.00) it is a power house that quickly grinds just about anything. We can be reached at 1-800-627-3809. We also carry a full line a self reliant/survival equipment.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=7457)
Date:
January 18, 1998 08:13 AM
Author: J.C. Sage
(ladysage@rocketmail.com)
Subject: Raising bread
If you are having trouble getting your bread to raise, try butting the boll on a heating pad set on low. I have always given up before my bread had time to fully raise and came out with flat, heavy loves. With the heating pad it is taking half as long as it used to and I am getting regular size sandwich loaves. I usually make two loaves every other day, so this has been a wonderful improvement. J.C..
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=10733)
Date:
January 18, 1998 10:14 AM
Author: Bugbite
Subject: On raising bread
In the winter I raise mine under the stove, in the summer I park the car in the sun and put my dough in there. Makes pretty loaves. No electricity.
Bugbite
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=10739)