| SHELF LIFE Supermarket Foods |
Date:
September 25, 1997 10:29 AM
Author: gbug
(gbug2k@hotmail.com)
Subject: SHELF LIFE Supermarket Foods
Looking for help on out study to identify the longer life supermarket items that will make good storage items. many brand name and common processed foods have clear "use by" dates on the package but many more do not. most foods will last much longer than the date indicated but the period indicated will give an indication of the life of the food and will show the items that are problems (like oils).
we have the beginnings of an understanding of how this will work and know lotsa good convenient food can be purchased locally. the following by study and common sense:
1. learn now and buy LATER at busy supers. its freshesst where they sell the most the fastest. store the money to buy the food but its too soon to start the clock running on local food purchases.
2. buy the paper products, soap and other long life supply items now. buy foods later with the money you store now for that purpose. buy as late as you dare and list the items you skip like flashlight batteries on a buy later list.
3. avoid slow moving items and odd packages as these items can be out of date on the super's shelf.
4. pro storage items may be great but campbells soups, stews and beans are dated 2 year and will last much longer. how great to just open a can for lunch while dinner soads in a bucket. many more of these old friend items will brighten your meals and save time and energy.
5. as a storehouse of wealth i'll bet i can get more for a can of chicken noodle than you can get for the same measure of pinto beans.
6. among the supermarket items the oils and oil content items seem to be the biggest problem. lots of help needed here. any food chemists out there?
7. the color and variety of these familiar branded products stored with or without the pro stuff will bring many smiles. don't forget you gotta get the kids to willingly eat what you store. whats wrong with an occasiona od on chemicals and sodium to save work and energy?
we need help on the shelf life issue and will address timing, sizes, containers for some items and other local sources later.
share your creative thinking on regional or unusual food products that store well. kentucky hams will store on a string, bacon too, but the eggs are tough unless you store em in a chicken.
bug-out
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3100)
Date:
September 25, 1997 06:54 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Why Wait???
Gbug,
I have to agree with Lilly on one important point: Why wait to get your food storage? If you are going to do much of your food storage building from the grocery store, it seems a lot more sane to me to get it as you can and rotate it until the hard times come. Lilly mentioned El Nina and the price of foods when you 'do' decide to get your food for storage at the last minute.
This probably will come across rather harsh. Believe me, I honestly don't intend it to be. A lot of things can happen between now and the year 2,000. Being so calculating in your planning could easily backfire on you for 100 reasons, most of them not even a local/national/world problem right now. It is better for you to get your stuff 2 years too early than a second too late. Some of you may feel I'm trying to peddle paranoia out there, but I'm really not. "If ye are prepared ye shall not fear."
You made some really excellent points, especially when talking about bartering, buying generic brands and buying the newest stock available, which is really important when dealing with wet packed goods.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3113)
Date:
September 25, 1997 09:31 PM
Author: Kyla Jones
(kyla_jones@hotmail.com)
Subject: Shelf Life of Progresso Canned Foods
Just this week I talked to Progresso Foods. They do lots of canned soups and beans and some other products. They use a dating system that is in code. THere's two lines of numbers and letters on the top of the can but only the first two figures in the first line, a letter and then a number, count for the dating. The letter indicates a month, A = Jan, B = Feb, etc. THe number is the last digit of the year the product is packed. So "D7" is April, 1997. They say their products are good for three years. But they also say they should be good to eat longer than that.
Some older cans that are still good have an older dating system. You can call them and they will tell you the date of your products. Their number is 1-800-200-9377. They can also send you something printed that shows how to figure it all out.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3119)
Date:
September 29, 1997 04:29 PM
Author: Joe Jeffries
(joejeffries@hotmail.com)
Subject: NINE YEAR OLD CRISCO
Have you ever heard of "rabbit starvation"? It seems in the early days of the country some back woodsers would only have rabbits to eat but those were in plentiful supply. Now, rabbit meat is so lean they would not get enough fats and would get fats-starvation.
Standard survival fare is wheat salt and water. I presume you could get rabbit starvation from that. So, many years ago I called CRISCO and asked for their shelf life -- seemed those cans were an ideal natural storage container. Gee, they said indefinitely, they supposed, but if it got bad it would be rancid and you would know it. So we stored some away for our survivalist supplies.
So, imagine my surprise in the kitchen the other day when I saw a Magic Markered date on a can of CRISCO my wife was using. It was stored away in a closet in Jan of 1989! She had run out, needed some, and pulled it down. Sure looked good to me and she said that she wasn't having any trouble using it! Whaddaya say, Al, can you vouch for this as a primo storage item?
-Joe
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3256)
Date:
September 30, 1997 06:28 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Fats are essential in our diets - Crisco, and other stuff.
Joe brings up a really important point here that fats are essential for good health. To give you one pioneer example, many are the stories of old timers killing an animal, taking the fat, and leaving the rest of the animal to rot. There are even a couple of stories out there of people taking a rotting carcass and boiling the meat to get the fat out of it.
>Standard survival fare is wheat salt and water. I presume
>you could get [fat] starvation...
True, true. You've got to have fat. The gov. suggests you get at least 30% of your calories from fat. That translates into at least 4 gallons of fat per person per year if you were eating off a low fat grains/legumes diet.
>So, many years ago I called CRISCO and ask for their shelf life
When it comes to fats I'm very opinionated (and probably wrong at least 3/4ths the time). Shortening is a double edged sword.
Good things about shortening:
1. It stores great, especially if just a tiny bit of trouble is spent to store it cool. I believe it stores much better than liquid oils.
2. It supplies the fats you need to remain healthy.
Bad things about shortening:
1. You probably won't find a fat source that has been more highly refined.
a. It has been made solid by partially hydrogenating vegetable oil which creates...
b. Trans fatty acids. These are fatty acid molecules that don't resemble anything in nature. Sometimes they can trick our bodies into thinking they are other kinds of fats creating lots of little troubles within our bodies. Our body plugs these trans fatty acids into a place but they don't work like the real fat would.
c. The oils in shortening have been refined so highly that there aren't any of the polyunsaturated essential (for our health) fatty acids left in them. Interestingly enough, these are the fats that go rancid - the very reason shortening stores so well as it doesn't contain any of them.
2. There is usually a small amount of cottonseed oil in shortening. According to Udo Erasmus this fat has toxic substances in it and it isn't fit for human consumption. So why do the shortening manufacturers put it in??? I don't know, I can guess that this is a cheap filler fat.
So to summarize, would I eat Crisco in a long term emergency situation where I must live off my food storage? Yes, in an instant. Even though it isn't the best fat, it is, after all, fat - an essential ingredient in our diets. It stores great, and I have never got sick from eating it, even with the cottonseed oil in it. Have any of you???
I believe a better solution would be to by Canola oil and rotate it in and out of your food supply on a 12-24 month basis. I suggest Canola as it has all the essential fatty acids in it you need to stay healthy. If this subject of fats interests you, take a look at our EFA pages. I hope you will find them informative and useful.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3327)
Date:
September 30, 1997 07:42 PM
Author: Liz
(Sunsethill@juno.com)
Subject: Olive oil shelf life
I posted this info in the Barter area because they had a discussion of oils there also. I called Bertolli, the olive oil manufacturers, to ask about the shelf life of their oils (which are much better for you than Crisco) and they said they had a shelf life of two years. The code is on the back. "L 093" means it was produced on the 93rd day of 1997. 1998 will be "M". Sams sell large bottles of oil much cheaper than the little sizes in most stores. Their Extra Light oil was developed for American tastes and does not have the heavy olive flavor most Americans do not like. I use it for all my baking and frying and it tastes great.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3330)
Date:
October 01, 1997 12:26 AM
Author: ken Seger
(kenseger@hotmail.com)
Subject: EFA and flax
Al is such a modest fellow, some times it hurts.
If he won't toot his own horn, I've plenty wind to spare.
The EFA files at waltonfeed.com have two files on flax seed as a "store it on the hoof" source of essential fatty acids. Just 3 Tblsp/day is all you need and 25# sack costs under $10. 25# is enough for one person for a year.
I've never read or heard of Udo Erasmus, but Pearson & Shaw's books cover the insidious chemistry of free radicals from low density lipoproteins (bad fats) and how they defeat the immune system. Last thing you want after Y2K is increased health risks.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3350)
Date:
October 07, 1997 12:31 AM
Author: Monica George
(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Flax Seed
I haven't researched everything on Walton's list for my shopping list...I did not know what flax is...Can it be substituted wherever a recipe calls for shortening or oil? Do I grease pans with it? What about the shortening flakes that Walton's sells? Monica
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3701)
Date:
October 09, 1997 09:45 AM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
>I did not know what flax is...Can it be substitutedj
>wherever a recipe calls for shortening or oil?
Flax is a plant that has a seed which is really high in oil - and especially one of the essential fatty acids. (http://waltonfeed.com/omega/flax.html) Anyway, the seed from flax is rather small. When flax is ground you get a rather sticky flour, again because of the oils. You would need an oil press to get the oils out of the flax flour. Or you could just put the ground flax into your foods. The above web page has a lot of info on this.
>What about the shortening flakes that Walton's sells?
Our shortening powder isn't real shortening. You'd be miles ahead to purchase regular shortening out of the store. To see what's in it and how to reconstitute it, see our #10 can labels at http://waltonfeed.com/self/labels/
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3834)
Date:
October 01, 1997 01:59 PM
Author: JRErskine
(jim.erskine@bgamug.org)
Subject: Rabbit Meat
Al,
Do you have any info on rabbit meat? I've heard that the old trappers would sometimes starve to death on a diet of rabbit, because it lacked the vitamins/minerals/fats we need to survive -- and it robs the body of these nutrients in order to digest it properly.
Jim Erskine
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3379)
Date:
October 01, 1997 09:43 PM
Author: Will Richards
Subject: Shhhhh,Be very very quiet, I'm huntin wabbit
Domestic rabbit equals or exceeds beef,pork,lamb,and chicken in protien content. I has a lower percentage of fat, less cholesterol. It has less calories per once. Because of the fine bones and fine grained meat, you will fill up faster on rabbit. I got this out of raising rabbits the modern way, By Bob Bennit. I raise em, I hunt em, I rike em. If you were to eat a diet of beef only you would starve, same with any meat. I strictly meat diet requires lotsa fat, ask an eskimo. Also the life expectancy of those on meat only diets is low. Plan ahead and you will have lots of other things to add to your Hasenpfeffer stew.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3401)
Date:
October 03, 1997 12:00 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Nutritional data on Wabbits.
Up to this point we have just been talking about the fat in rabbit meat which is only 8% by weight. But surprisingly, of the little fat it has, it is unusually high in the essential fatty acids (EFA), Linolenic acid, and Linolenic acid. If you ate a lot of rabbit, I expect you could just about meet your EFA requirements from rabbit alone. But as we are supposed to be getting 30% of our calories from fat, rabbit is a bit lean in the fats department. You would need to suppliment your diet with more fats and oils.
Will Richards makes another really great comment - rabbit has excellent protein content. Just 100 grams of rabbit meat contains 29 grams of protein. Beef has 29 grams, pork has 12 grams, chicken has 27 grams, turkey has 28 grams, fish averages about 19 grams and lamb has 24 grams of protein in a 100 gram sample. So you can see that Rabbit does great in the protein department. But it's even better than that. Protein is made up of literally thousands of amino acids. Of those thousands of amino acids, 11 of them are essential. This means that our bodies can't make them. But with those essential 11 amino acids, our bodies can make all the other thousands of amino acids the various systems in our bodies need. [See Histidine to Valine below.] Rabbit meat has nearly twice as many essential amino acids as beef has, even though they both have about the same amount of total proteins. One small hamburger sized piece of rabbit meat will supply all your protein requirements for a whole day. But there is a whole lot more to this protein story. (I find this whole subject of nutrition fascinating. Don't you?)
Along with Will, I have done a bunch of studying about rabbits in my past and believe with the ease of raising them, good commercial meat rabbits (such as the New Zealand White or the Californian) would be an excellent way to go for an emergency meat supply - that is, if you could bring your self to doing Bugs Bunny in. If you seriously want to do this, start out with good stock. You can just as easily buy a bunch of hay burners that will give you little return in the meat department.
Will, sometimes I'm so busy that the obvious slaps me in the face and I don't even see it. You are right. Rabbit meat is good stuff if it isn't the only thing you eat! Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
A nutritional analysis of 100 grams (that's about 1/3 cup) of rabbit meat follows:
Male
RDA %
Food energy KCal: 197 7
Protein Gms: 29.06 46
Total lipid (fat) Gms: 8.05 8
Carbohydrate, by diff. Gms: 0 0
Total saturated fat Gms: 2.4 8
Ttl monounsaturated fat Gms: 2.17
Ttl polyunsaturated fat Gms: 1.56 See fats below
Cholesterol Mg : 82 27
Sodium Mg : 47 2
Total dietary fiber Gms: 0 0
Vitamin A Re : 0 0
Alpha Tocopherol Mg : 0 No RDA Req.
Ascorbic acid Mg : 0 0
Thiamin Mg : 0.09 6
Riboflavin Mg : 0.21 12
Niacin Mg : 8.43 44
Vitamin B6 Mg : 0.47 24
Folacin Mcg: 11 6
Vitamin B12 Mcg: 8.3 415
Potassium Mg : 383 11
Calcium Mg : 19 2
Phosphorus Mg : 263 33
Magnesium Mg : 21 6
Iron Mg : 2.27 23
Zinc Mg : 2.27 15
Pantothenic acid Mg : 0.93 9
Copper Mg : 0.189 9
Manganese Mg : 0.032 1
Caprylic Acid (8:0) Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Capric acid (10:0) Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Lauric acid (12:0) Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Myristic acid (14:0) Gms: 0.21 No RDA Req.
Palmitic acid (16:0) Gms: 1.81 No RDA Req.
Palmitoleic acid(16:1) Gms: 0.26 No RDA Req.
Stearic acid (18:0) Gms: 0.38 No RDA Req.
Oleic acid (18:1) Gms: 1.86 No RDA Req.
Linoleic acid (18:2/n6) Gms: 1.24 41
Linolenic acid(18:3/n3) Gms: 0.32 16
Gadoleic acid (20:1) Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Docosenoic acid (22:1) Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Phytosterols Mg : 0 No RDA Req.
Histidine Gms: 0.815 86
Isoleucine Gms: 1.379 145
Leucine Gms: 2.264 179
Lysine Gms: 2.544 268
Methionine Gms: 0.727 See below
Cystine Gms: 0.365 See below
Methionine+Cystine Gms: 1.092 138
Phenylalanine Gms: 1.193 See below
Tyrosine Gms: 1.035 See below
Phenylalanine+Tyrosine Gms: 2.228 176
Threonine Gms: 1.3 206
Tryptophan Gms: 0.384 162
Valine Gms: 1.477 134
Arginine Gms: 1.795 No RDA Req.
Alanine Gms: 1.753 No RDA Req.
Aspartic acid Gms: 2.839 No RDA Req.
Glutamic acid Gms: 4.662 No RDA Req.
Glycine Gms: 1.578 No RDA Req.
Proline Gms: 0 No RDA Req.
Serine Gms: 1.288 No RDA Req. To get your very own nutritional calculator that I made up for just this kind of stuff, see http://waltonfeed.com/grain/calc.html
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3497)
Date:
October 03, 1997 01:34 PM
Author: JRErskine
(jim.erskine@bgamug.org)
Subject: wabbits out of my hat
Will & Al,
Thanks for the wabbit info. If you don't mind, I'd like to drop your comments into the wabbit discussion in the next issue of COMING HOME, so the rabbit farmers among our readers don't have a conniption fit.
We thank you,
Jim Erskine
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3504)
Date:
October 03, 1997 08:17 PM
Author: Will Richards
Subject: No sweat
tell me where to send for a copy okay?
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3518)
Date:
October 07, 1997 12:39 AM
Author: Monica George
(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Me too!
I'd like to get a copy of that too. monica george
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3703)
Date:
October 10, 1997 01:13 AM
Author: JRErskine
(jim.erskine@bgamug.org)
Subject: COMING HOME MAGAZINE
Since you asked nicely, : ) here's the contact info for COMING HOME: P.O. Box 1282, Bowling Green, KY 42102. Sample copies are $3 each, ppd. COMING HOME is a 60 pp. mostly reader-written magazine about practical Christianity and practical living. Sort of like a Christian version of "Countryside" -- lots of how-to articles on home-centered, rural topics; home schooling; home business; family worship; etc. etc.. We thank you, Jim Erskine
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3904)
Date:
October 06, 1997 11:49 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
>I'd like to drop your comments into the wabbit
>discussion in the next issue of COMING HOME...
Ditto from my end. Go for it, that's what we're here for.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3689)
Date:
October 03, 1997 08:11 PM
Author: Will Richards
Subject: It Is I who Owe Thanks
Thanks again AL, you always fill in the gaps. Someday I may be able to repay you the debt for the knowledge you so freely give.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3517)
Date:
October 04, 1997 12:06 AM
Author: Kyla Jones
(kyla_jones@hotmail.com)
Subject: Rabbits and Pigs
Hi Al - thanks for the great info on rabbits. For those who hesitate about eating rabbit, I can tell you that it tastes somewhat like chicken. You could probably pass it off as chicken if no one noticed you had four legs and no wings per bird.
One comment - the Nutrition Almanac says 100gms of pork roast has either 25 gms of protein (leg) or 26.6gms (rump).
Kyla
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3530)
Date:
October 07, 1997 12:34 AM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
>100gms of pork roast has either 25 gms of protein (leg)
>or 26.6gms (rump).
Kyla, I've got to admit that the figure I mentioned for pork, 12 grams, sounds a lot low, and it probably is. My figures come from the USDA. And who knows, perhaps the pig they tested really only did have only 12% protein by weight. When one gets into this nutrition thing, everybody's figures are different depending on the source. It really is an inexact science and the best one can do is hit in the ball park somewhere. Those are my feelings, anyway.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3702)
Date:
September 25, 1997 12:20 PM
Author: Lilly
(lillyroberts@usa.net)
I have to agree with you on an important point. Having convience foods on hand is a good idea. If you were to become sick, opening a can of soup is alot easier then going through the process of making it from scratch. If you have the space to store such things, I'd stock up on them. Timing is everything. Why not stock up now and rotate your cans as used? Using your home storage is one way to keep your supply fresh, it is also a way to keep your food budget down. I don't know about the rest of you but, it is easy to go to the grocery store a couple times a week and end up with a lot of useless junk food. I'm now to a point where when I go to the store, I pick up a case of vegtables or spagetti sauce at the same time. With these items in my cart, it is easier NOT to justify grabbing a bag of chips. If you have a store like an Aldi or Save A Lot near you, cans of vegtables go for 29 cents. Today I purchased a case of spagetti sauce, Del Monte, for 69 cents a can. This sauce is as good as the name brands. These are wonderful stores that usually don't carry name brands but, I have had no trouble with their brands. Why pay 79 cents or more for a can of green beans when you don't have to? For the price of a Big Mac value meal at McDonalds, I can get a case of chilli beans! Now thats value! Next week I'll be ordering dried milk and eggs. I feel that this is the easiest method for having them on hand. Your right, the best place to store eggs is in a chicken. Unless you have access to fresh eggs (I do but I'm not going to count on it), the second best option is dried. Don't do too much last min. waiting because you don't know what food prices will be then. For example, no one can be certian what this El Nino will do. I've heard all sorts of predictions but... no one knows. One bad crop year and the supplies that would of cost you $100 could be much, much more. It's just a safety issue.
Lilly
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3104)
Date:
October 15, 1997 12:07 AM
Author: carmon
(carmon@softanswer.com)
Subject: powdered milk
Where will you order your milk from? I noticed that there is no powdered milk in the Walton catalog.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4175)
Date:
October 15, 1997 12:51 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
Subject: Don't yu just hate outright advertisements on the forum...
The following is available from Walton Feed. B11 MILK Buttermilk Powder 50 lbs bag BAG 78.70 50 G69 MILK Buttermilk Powder 17oz #2.5 can CAN 5.30 1 G70 MILK Buttermilk Powder 6 #2.5 cans CASE 30.15 8 J15 MILK Buttermilk Powder 68oz #10 can CAN 14.10 5 J16 MILK Buttermilk Powder 6 #10 cans CASE 80.40 31 P12 MILK Milk, Instant (non-fat) 55.15# bag BAG 86.25 56 V04 MILK Milk, Instant (non-fat) 6 gal N/P BUCKET 55.00 33 Y04 MILK Milk, Instant (non-fat) 6 gal SP BUCKET 58.25 33 R03 MILK Milk, Instant non-fat 17oz #2.5 can CAN 3.95 1.5 R04 MILK Milk, Instant non-fat 6 #2.5 cans CASE 22.30 8 R01 MILK Milk, Instant (non-fat) 60oz #10 cn CAN 10.35 5 R02 MILK Milk, Instant (non-fat) 6 #10 cans CASE 59.10 28 P11 MILK Milk, Regular 50# bag BAG 71.20 50 V05 MILK Milk, Regular (non-fat) 6 gal N/P BUCKET 58.05 38 Y05 MILK Milk, Reg (non-fat) 6 gal 35 lbs SP BUCKET 61.30 38 T05 MILK Milk, Regular 18 oz #2.5 can CAN 3.80 1.5 T06 MILK Milk, Regular 6 #2.5 cans to case CASE 21.80 8 T01 MILK Milk, Regular (non-fat) 64oz #10 cn CAN 10.10 5 T02 MILK Milk, Regular (non-fat) 6 #10 cans CASE 57.75 29 B54 MILK Morning Moo-Chocolate Makes 50 gal BAG 76.90 50 C21 MILK Morning Moo-Chocolate 6 gal N/P BUCKET 62.85 38 E21 MILK Morning Moo-Chocolate 6 gal 35 lb SP BUCKET 66.10 38 T09 MILK Corning Moo Chocolate 64 oz #10 can CAN 10.25 5 B53 MILK Morning Moo-White Milk Sub. 70 gal BAG 79.90 50 C20 MILK Morning Moo-White 6 gal 35 lbs N/P BUCKET 62.90 38 E20 MILK Morning Moo-White 6 gal 35 lbs SP BUCKET 66.10 38 T03 MILK Morning Moo-White 64oz #10 cn CAN 10.25 5 Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4204)
Date:
October 15, 1997 12:07 AM
Author: carmon
(carmon@softanswer.com)
Subject: powdered milk
Where will you order your milk from? I noticed that there is no powdered milk in the Walton catalog.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4176)
Date:
October 16, 1997 01:41 AM
Author: Lynn Lowrie
(hope1@breeze.net)
Subject: quick fix foods
Lilly, I think your thoughtful ideas on fast food in your storage is a great one. While expensive, it can fill a real need in a time of stress. While raising all my kids there were plenty of stressful times that needed a fast meal, not one worked up out of basic food storage items.
I like to listen to the ideas of others on any subject. I once heard a dentist who was preparing for tough times and he suggested to get as much as you can, at least a year, of the basic, wheat,grain, pwd milk, sugars, oils etc. Then he suggested to accumelate 6 months worth of everyday stuff, like canned products you like to use today,anything you feel you have to have on hand NOW, so that the tough times will NOT be as stressfull. Of course these would be rotated. Many who think of food storage forget that stressful time REQUIRE ease of life, eating, resting, and such. I have a long standing testimoney of food basics in storage, but I feel more comfortable having niceties on the shelf also.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4228)
Date:
September 26, 1997 08:57 AM
Author: gbug
(gbug2k@hotmail.com)
Subject: Gotta wait
a number of reasons but the big one is that almost none of us live now the way we will live after the event. i can't remember my last can of chicken noodle. what am i gonna rotate it with, steak? another issue is freshness. i would prefer that my chicken noodle be canned in 12/99. i will watch the world around me and have the money and shopping plan ready when i feel it is time. I will also order from waltons but much sooner as they will become saturated with orders. most people have no experience with inventory management and buying into a rotation scheme makes the job two years longer and will likely be abandoned prior to the event by many. attention span?
thanks for your help.
bug-out
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3145)
Date:
September 26, 1997 10:55 AM
Author: ken Seger
(kenseger@hotmail.com)
Subject: A Reply
I really don't want to sound like a wet blanket here, but....
> a number of reasons but the big one is that
> almost none of us live now the way we will live
> after the event.
Well then, now is a good time to start. A bit of humility is useful thing. One is more likely to appreciate what one has if one does without it for a while. Also, the time to make mistakes is NOW, not after Y2K when they might be harder (or impossible) to correct.
> i can't remember my last can of
> chicken noodle. what am i gonna rotate it with,
> steak?
I'm not sure I understand you. If you just write the date of purchase on the top of the can, it's easy. My father has been doing this for decades.
> another issue is freshness. i would
> prefer that my chicken noodle be canned in 12/99.
And I would VASTLY prefer that Y2K be not a problem at all. If the bank runs start in earnest in 10/99, the cannery might be collecting dust in 12/99.
> i will watch the world around me and have the
> money and shopping plan ready when i feel it is
> time.
Your crsytal ball must be vastly clearer than mine. I truely wish you the absolute best of luck on this approach. You must make your living trading commodities. Question on the money, do you have a vehicle that you can store money in that is both safe and will outpace inflation/taxes? If so please share your idea, I and others would sincerely like to know of a safe haven.
> I will also order from waltons but much
> sooner as they will become saturated with orders.
Excellent point! Waltons and all of the other places like it are exceedingly small in relation to the general population. I can't remember the trigger event, but back in the 80's all of the survivalists got edgey, ordered more storage food and places like Walton's were backordered for months.
> most people have no experience with inventory
> management and buying into a rotation scheme
> makes the job two years longer and will likely be
> abandoned prior to the event by many. attention
> span?
I do pray that you will start now so that you can flatten out the learning curve that all of us have either gone through or are going through or will need to go through.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3149)
Date:
September 26, 1997 12:26 PM
Author: gbug
(gbug2k@hotmail.com)
Subject: clarifying noodles
ken sorry i wasn't clear about the rotation thing. lets say that i have (cause i have) assigned a 3 year life to chicken noodle soup and if i want a can a week for that time i need to buy six cases of soup. if i buy it now i not only have to eat a can every week but i also have to replace it with one i buy and handle the rotation issue by putting my new can under the six cases i have minus one can. i realize the example i use sounds crazy but doing this on any kind of scale would be more work than almost anyone would do. my purchase cycle starts with cans of fruit and veggies just after pack time in 1998. at this time the new pack is offered to the marketplace at reduced prices because of storage limitations. excluding the clearance of stale carryover pack from the prior year. mega processed grocery items are summer '99 in my current thinking. i'llgive good odds i can buy all the cn soup i need on july 4, 1999. if conditions in '99 are worse than i expect i'll change my date but loose this bet. i must learn to use this format. as i approach this like a conversation and the listener here can't see the smile when i say steak. thanks bug-out
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3156)
Date:
September 27, 1997 06:31 PM
Author: Tom Jones
(dr_jones12@hotmail.com)
Subject: What about cheese?
Anybody know how long cheese keeps? Or where one could purchase cheese in whole wheels? I know people made and stored it long before there were refrigerators. Seems to me you just kept it cool -- it was sealed in waxed cloth. But for how long?
I love cheese!
TJ
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3197)
Date:
September 27, 1997 08:24 PM
Author: Will Richards
Subject: Cheese or An old goat speaks up
Cheese is an art. I have been working at it for years and I still have not mastered it. you can store it but not as long as you would like. Remember stored cheese ages so what you store now will be different thatn what you started with, it may be better, it may not. Being a goat herd(not herder) here are two books I recommend to all. All the info will apply to Cows if you must have one. My personal opinion is cows are for eating and making shoes, goats are for milking.
Goat Cheese Small Scale Production
The Frabrication of Farmstead Goat Cheese
You can get them at: New England Supply company PO BOX 85 Ashfield, MA 01330
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3204)
Date:
October 13, 1997 01:04 PM
Author: sam bickford
(sam-bickford@usa.net)
Subject: Cheese & Dried Meats
I once stored a 5 pound waxed wheel of Crowley Cheese, Colby Style ( Made in VT) for just over 1 year. It was stored in my cellar which was dard, cool and not too humid.It was excellent tasting and was in good condition with no mold. I know that there are other cheeses that store for much longer periods of time without deteriorating, example are hard cheeses like Blue,Romano, Parmasen> I do not know how long these will store for. Anyone know. How long can we store properly packaged, waxed cheeses, like Gouda, Cheddar etc...
My second question is about dried and curred meats. Anyone have any idea how long properly stored dried meats can last. For example Beef Jerky and other Jerked meat. What about dried curred Hams, like the ones from Smithfield. I have heard these can last a long time. I am not sure how long though. Any thoughts.
Sam
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4107)
Date:
October 15, 1997 01:35 AM
Author: Joe Stout
(joewstout@iswt.com)
Subject: RESTAURANT PACKETS
Does anyone know the shelf life of the small packets of condiments served in most all fast food restaurants? Such as catsup, mustard, salad dressing, jellies, sauces, etc. These can be purchased at Sam's Club at about the same price that restaurant's pay. The advantage to the use of these would be no need for refrigeration.
Would it help to pack them in buckets with absorbers to extend shelf life?
Joe Stout
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4181)
Date:
October 15, 1997 01:26 PM
Author: Al Durtschi
(rcox@mail.lcc.whecn.edu)
>Would it help to pack them in buckets with absorbers to
>extend shelf life?
I have no idea what the storage life on these things are, but I can only guess it wouldn't do you much good to nitrogen pack them as they are already sealed.
Al
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=4205)